SPB’s Insanely Popular Unprecedented [VIDEO!] Podcast– w/ 21 Outstanding Episodes

Welcome to a Truly Unprecedented Legal Podcast

Episode 21: The Man Behind TRACED Finally Speaks: American Robocall Hero David Frankel Joins Unprecedented Podcast to Talk ITG and Carrier Call/Text Blocking

The 21st edition of the Squire Patton Boggs Unprecedented podcast is available here:

Click the pictures to watch the episode!




































When the list of the most innovative and impactful minds of the early 21st century is compiled one day names like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Eric J. Troutman are sure to be among them.

But there is another fellow who is, perhaps, even more deserving of appreciation and chances are pretty good that you’ve never heard of him.

I’m talking about David Frankel– the super-nerd (I say that with respect) who dreamed up the entire concept of “tracing” unwanted robocalls to their source through carrier transitions to better combat the problem. Through his tireless efforts (obsession?) the dream of a traceback group went from a clunky sometimes-its-there-sometimes-its-not effort by a lone telecom trade organization to a thoroughly comprehensive and nearly-automatic effort backed by Congress and juiced up by the FCC.

Simply put, Frankel is an American hero. There’s going to be a movie about this guy one day. And not like a lifetime special. I mean a big budget version where Frankel is played by Tom Hanks. I guarantee it.

But there’s a dark side here too. In large part due to Frankel’s efforts, the carriers in this nation have gone from REQUIRED to connect calls to your number to REQUIRED to block certain calls, under potential penalty of potential criminal prosecution–and that means a lot of legitimate traffic is likely being blocked as the carriers struggle to prevent fraudulent traffic.

Be sure to listen in as David walks us through his incredible journey and shares his thoughts on where things are headed next.

Before we get to the interview, the team breaks down several critical recent developments:

First, the Earl breaks down the HUGE win Walmart pulled down holding that the FCC’s COVID exemption ruling–interpreting the TCPA’s emergency exemption for healthcare related calls–might be a little broader than anyone realized.

Second, the Viscountess–how great is she BTW?–gives a review of that terrible standing case with the guy who sued over a call to his mom’s landline. Gross.

And finally the Archduke brings us news of a withdrawal of a CFPB rule that provided CRITICAL protection to the nation’s banks and finance companies against arbitrary overreach in the UDAAP space. Its about to get ugly out there folks, and he Archduke explains precisely why that is.



Episode (4)20: TCPA and the Cannabis Industry: National Cannabis Industry Association Spokesman Joins Unprecedented Podcast for Intense New Interview

The HUGE (4)20th edition of the Squire Patton Boggs Unprecedented podcast is available here:

Click the pictures to watch the episode!





















Well folks, this is what TCPAWorld.com is all about.

When a new crop of small business entrepreneurs trying to trailblaze the American business frontiers comes under assault by abusive TCPA lawsuits–we’re the cavalry that comes a chargin’ in.

In our (4)20th Episode of the Unprecedented podcast the team saddles up and rides with National Cannabis Industry Association spokesman Morgan Fox to discuss the rash of recent TCPA lawsuits targeting dispensaries and other cannabis players and what they can do to not become the victim of a TCPA class action.

As Morgan explains, 68% of American adults now favor the legalization of Marijuana (with appropriate regulation) and have come to understand the harms caused by prohibition and criminalization. On the other hand, an even wider majority of Americans disapprove of unwanted robocalls–so the industry’s recent spat of TCPA litigation may actually prove detrimental to the Organization’s larger mission of acceptance and normalization.

This has not escaped the NCIA’s notice, and Morgan’s appearance on Unprecedented is just the first step toward helping folks in this space understand the importance of complying with the complex web of federal law and regulation impacting telephone outreach.

Before we get to the critical interview–found at the 27:50 mark– the team breaks down all the big TCPA developments.


Episode 19: Jornaya and Active Prospect CEOS Discuss Consent Verification!

The HUGE 19th edition of the Squire Patton Boggs Unprecedented podcast is available here:

Click the pictures to watch the episode!

Ross Shanken– CEO, Jornaya


Steve Rafferty– CEO, Active Prospect























HUGE podcast interview with two of the most remarkable and impactful CEOs in the TCPAWorld–Steve Rafferty of ActiveProspect and Ross Shanken of Jornaya.

How AMAZING is that?

You know these companies as the guardian angels of the TCPAWorld–keeping watch over millions of website interactions each month to assure that CONSENT is actually being obtained on leads that are being purchased or sold.

In the interview you’ll learn how these products works and how they assure a REAL LIFE interaction took place on a website that is traceable and verifiable–and how that helps cut down on TCPA risk, as well as assuring a positive customer experience.

Although Jornaya and ActiveProspect are rivals in the business world both of these companies share a common vision–to keep your business SAFE and to keep consumers SANE by assuring that well-intentioned businesses do not inadvertently call individuals that did not request contact. They do this by “witnesses” interactions on websites and assuring that a lead us valid by passing tokens and visual renderings of these interactions to callers.

Want to know more? Watch the interview!

We also discuss challenges facing certain verticals–such as cannabis–and how the cutting-edge technological solutions developed by these companies can help cut down on nuisance calls (and lawsuits) while simultaneously protecting consumer privacy.

As great as the products are, these CEOs are equally fantastic. True visionaries. Quick-witted and insightful they share a viewpoint on the goings on in TCPAWorld that you’d never expect to hear–and these guys really know their stuff. The historical lens (and yes, a little gossip) that you’ll get here is simply invaluable.

Before we get there, our powerful TCPA Defense Team breaks down the BIGGEST developments including:

  1. The FCC’s huge review of TCPA exemptions pursuant to the TRACED Act and the ascension of Simington to the office of Commissioner;
  2. The incredible split of authority around Creasy and whether the TCPA is constitutional as applied to calls made prior to July 6, 2020— you’ll hear directly from the Archduke about his HUGE win on the subject in Hussain (man is that guy good);
  3. The COMPLETELY crazy shift in deference given to FCC TCPA rulings following the big PDR Resources ruling from the Fourth Circuit on remand from the Supremes. You just can’t make this stuff up!

Plus I am wearing a new hat! Now, that’s big TCPA news.

All in all its our biggest and most important episode of Unprecedented yet.

Episode 18: Sergei Lemberg Joins Unprecedented to Discuss Facebook TCPA Appeal!

Click the picture below to enjoy the [VIDEO] podcast:

Record date: October 23, 2020

Drop date: October 27, 2020




Well folks, here it is — the BIG [VIDEO] podcast episode you’ve been waiting for.

Sergei Lemberg–lead counsel for Plaintiff Duguid in the huge Facebook TCPA ATDS challenge to the U.S. Supreme Court--joins us to discuss the case, his strategy, and why he should win.

And the guy is candid. Let’s start with this:

“I’m going to win. You’re going to lose.”

Sergei Lemberg of his chances in Duguid appeal on Unprecedented podcast, record date October 23, 2020.

Ultimately Sergei ended up allowing Bryan Garner to argue the big Facebook appeal–and you can read our definitive breakdown here– but in the weeks leading up to the argument he joined us to share his thoughts on the appeal.

If you enjoyed our big GAME DAY coverage, you absolutely cannot miss this icing on the cake.

Episode 17: The Team Breaks Down the big TCPA SCOTUS Ruling in AAPC

Click the picture below to enjoy the [VIDEO] podcast:


Record date: July 6, 2020

Drop date: July 9, 2020




Well folks this was supposed to be the big news of the day, but it was entirely overshadowed by the huge news that Facebook’s cert. petition to the Supremes was granted–meaning that the Supreme Court will resolve the ongoing circuit split over the TCPA’s ATDS definition. 

Nonetheless, the big SCOTUS ruling from this year is Barr v. AAPC and it has wide-ranging implications on the First Amendment and the TCPA alike.

In Episode 17 of the Unprecedented podcast, the team (Czar, Archduke, Grand Duchess, Countess and Apprentice) break down the Barr v. AAPC ruling from every angle and discuss how it came to be and what it means for the future of the TCPA–and the First Amendment.

Episode 16: The BIG One– FCC Commissioner Michael O’Rielly


Record date: June 2, 2020

Drop date: June 5, 2020
















Well this is the one everyone was excited for–FCC Commissioner Michael O’Rielly joined the TCPAWorld team to discuss the TCPA and pending FCC petitions.

We cover a lot of ground in the interview, which you obviously need to watch/listen to if you’re at all impacted by the Telephone Consumer Protection Act or the FCC’s recent call blocking rules.

The most important part of the interview for the TCPAWorld faithful, however, was the discussion about pending FCC petitions, which he says might be granted “in the very near term.”

[TCPA petitions might be granted]…in the very near term.

-FCC Commissioner Michael O’Rielly on Unprecedented June 1, 2020 (Record Date)

He wasn’t kidding. Not long after the interview the FCC, indeed, addressed two TCPA petitions and it seems like more rulings might be on their way.

Of course, I couldn’t help but ask him about that time John Oliver famously “robocalled” the FCC to protest TCPA reform. Commissioner O’Rielly was frank and direct in his rejection of that notion:

I didnt find this one all that funny… and I didn’t find that it had any influence. [The FCC] was not scared off.

(As far as I know that is the first time any sitting FCC Commissioner has made a public remark about the John Oliver piece so– you’re welcome TCPAworld.)

But the best part of the interview–at least for me–was the Commissioner’s promise of a prompt return:

I’ll be back…I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

-FCC Commissioner Michael O’Rielly on Unprecedented June 1, 2020 (Record Date)

Episode 15: TCPA Class Action Monster Anthony Paronich


Record date: May 21, 2020

Drop date: June 3, 2020














































When it comes to TCPA class action lawyers they don’t come more dangerous than Anthony Paronich. The guy is absolutely prolific and when he gets a hold of a company he is notorious for refusing to let go–even when substantial evidence suggests the case may not hold water.


TCPA Class Action Lawyer Anthony Paronich

In this week’s episode of Unprecedented we invite Counsel Paronich on the show to explain his perspective on why a Jornaya or a TrustedForum certificate simply may not be enough–in his opinion–to justify that prompt dismissal you might think is appropriate. You have to hear it to believe it.

More broadly, in his world view–which is not shared by TCPAWorld.com or the author–lead sellers are commonly selling bad or false leads, even manufacturing consent documents at times. And in a landscape where leads simply cannot be trusted, a third-party verification form is simply not enough to discourage Paronich from pursuing his case; he demands documents from the ultimate lead source. And what happens when those records aren’t available? Listen to the interview to find out.

Paronich is extremely candid in this interview and explains articulately and intelligently why he believes lead buyers are ultimately responsible for illegal calls in most cases, even when consent looks pretty solid.  This includes his take on TCPA vicarious liability and Rule 23 certification–a real litigator’s delight. He underscores repeatedly the dangers of lead buyers making calls without really knowing who they’re doing business with.

Most important is his discussion of personal TCPA liability. Listen to Paronich reveal the one argument that he says is made on “bad advice” and that is sure to get you named PERSONALLY in a lawsuit– this one is CRITICAL and reason alone to listen to the interview.

Plus Paronich explains what he’s looking for in YOUR disclosures that he will use to defeat a finding of consent–including what he thinks of those hyperlink disclosures with a whole bunch of seller names hidden behind the bold blue print.

I keep the guy talking for about an hour (you’re welcome) and we meander through his background, his business practices, and how he finds clients. To his credit, Paronich is extremely candid and credible in this interview–he really lays it all on the line, expressly giving us some of his “tips and tricks.” He seems genuinely interested in cutting down on illegal calls– so ignore his calls to action at your peril.


Click the picture for the podcast!

Anyone involved in lead buying or lead selling needs to listen to this interview from start to finish. It is an absolute MUST LISTEN/WATCH for those interested in understanding how to avoid being the target of a TCPA class action.

Before we get to the interview, of course, the team breaks down all of the biggest TCPA developments of the last week.


Episode 14: Constitutional Law Professor Garret Epps 



Record date: May 11, 2020

Drop date: May 28, 2020














































Well folks, our coverage of the HUGE SCOTUS review of the TCPA continues today. Of course we famously live blogged the oral argument earlier this month, then followed up with definitive analysis and an incredible round-table podcast breaking it down (including analysis from one of Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg’s former law clerk’s-  Ben Beaton, co-head of SPB’s Appellate Team.) And now we have EXPERT analysis from Constitutional Law Professor Garret Epps of the University of Baltimore.

Well aren’t we just the gift that keeps on giving.


Professor Garret Epps, Univ. Baltimore Constitutional Law Professor

Now, Professor Epps isn’t just any old cont. law professor, he’s the guy who wrote this absolutely incredible piece in the Atlantic analyzing the impact of the SCOTUS TCPA review on our First Amendment rights. This thing is a must read–and really proves, once and for all, that I’m not actually the best writer in the world, whatever I may think on certain days.

This guy is a true historian–on the podcast he breaks down the history of the Supreme Court’s review of content-specific statutes and explains why the Barr v. AAPC case is part of a logical progression toward applying heightened scrutiny to enactments that curtail commercial speech. Indeed he explains why this challenge came along at just the right time in the Court’s history. Translation: there really is a chance the TCPA is going away.

You’re going to love this guys wit and warmth. He is ultra-quick, charming and has a voice and cadence that recalls Vin Scully. I could literally listen to this guy read from a phone book and be entranced–so you’re going to love listening to him break down the Constitutional doctrines at play here with funny anecdotes and illustrations along the way.

Before we get to the excellent interview, we break down several key TCPA developments, including:

As always folks we hope you will find this edition of Unprecedented both entertaining and informative.

As a reminder, our next edition will include an interview with TCPA class action juggernaut Anthony Paronich. You can’t miss that one.

Plus, news of a VERY exciting guest is on the horizon. TRUST ME, you’ll want to watch out for it.



Episode 13: Breaking Down the big SCOTUS Review in Barr v. AAPC



Record date: May 6, 2020

Drop date: May 7, 2020














































We’re at it again. The very same day the Supreme Court held oral argument in Barr v. AAPC the TCPAWorld team was breaking it down in a one-of-a-kind video podcast experience.

Indeed, TCPAWorld.com gave you live coverage of the big Supreme Court oral argument as SCOTUS reviewed the constitutionality of the TCPA under the First Amendment in Barr v. AAPC. 

Our live feeds can be found here and here.

And our definitive analysis–already one of our most popular articles ever–can be found here. 

But our coverage continues today with a team podcast round table where the Archduke, the Grand Duchess, and Ben Beatona former supreme court clerk  and co-chair of Squire Patton Bogg’s powerful appellate team–breakdown every little nuance of the argument and help YOU understand what happened, why it happened, and what it all means for the TCPA and the First Amendment.



I play host and give you my take right out of the gate–the Supreme Court is struggling with a major and difficult decision: strike down a popular statute, or run roughshod over decades of cherished constitutional principles. Tough choice folks.


The Archduke provides his brilliant analysis–unwinding the most nuanced aspects of the oral argument and the tough issues posed by the severance remedy in this case.


Of course, Ben Beaton–who clerked for Justice Ginsburg–provides his brilliant take on the argument, explaining exactly what the case might mean for the First Amendment more generally, and also telling us what we can and CAN’T safely expect SCOTUS to do with this one.


And finally, the Grand Duchess–her Royal Highness Herself–joins us to breakdown the broader privacy aspects presented by the SCOTUS appeal and give her prediction on the outcome of the case on the TCPA.

We hit this thing from all angles folks and give you exactly what YOU need to know about the BIGGEST TCPA event of the year.

Host: The Czar

Cast:   ArchdukeGrand Duchess, Ben Beaton

Episode 12: U.S. Telecom S.V.P. Patrick Halley is Batman…


Guest (Via POWERVision): U.S. Telecom S.V.P. Patrick Halley

Record date: April 28, 2020

Drop date: May 5, 2020















































Our first ever VIDEO Podcast–and with a Huge Guest! Again, what were we thinking? hahaha

With all the videoconferencing we’ve been doing during the COVID19 pandemic–and without access to our sophisticated podcast studios–it was only natural that we’d try our hand at a VIDEO version of the Unprecedented podcast, made possible through the wonders of webex.

Without question this turned out to be the best version of the podcast yet. This episode has it all: goofy hats (nice clickbait picture right?), witty banter, a critical breakdowns of the TCPA SCOTUS review, the big new Second Circuit ruling on ATDS (Duran v. LaBoom), the FCC’s implementation of TRACED Act requirements, and the FCC’s action around COVID19 calls. Plus Sara announces her new TCPAWorld nickname and we tease a NON-PUBLIC FCC petition that will literally changed the TCPAWorld.

Jammed packed.

But most importantly, of course, we deliver our highly-anticipated interview with  Patrick Halley, Sr. V.P. at U.S. Telecom–one of the most powerful trade organizations on the planet– that represents dozens of telecom players in the United States. US Telecom, in turn, created and runs the Industry Traceback Group–using tips from companies like YouMail and Nomorobo to identify scam calls and then implement traceback efforts to identify the point of entry for those calls into the US carrier networks. Its a tremendous program that has shown incredible success at getting to the real root of the robocall problem–the overseas call centers running the terrible scam calls we all detest.


Patrick Halley

In the incredible VIDEO interview–brought to you via Squire Patton Boggs POWERVision ™ at the 19:25 mark– Patrick walks us through how the traceback effort works and the brick-by-brick steps necessary to identify the source of scam calls. He also discusses the huge pressure on carriers to BLOCK calls–including potentially legal calls–and the steps legitimate callers can take to make sure their traffic is not improperly blocked or labeled as a scam.

To assist your navigation through the video, here’s your TCPAWorld.com Unprecedented podcast viewing guide (never thought I’d say that):

  • From the start to about the 4:02 mark I introduce myself and my diverse and talented cast;
  • At the 3:38 mark Sara Borgijiandeclares herself the “Baroness” of the TCPAWorld;
  • At the 4:02 mark I brag about TCPAWorld for a while;
  • At the 4:45 mark the Grand Duchess breaks down the big Supreme Court review of the TCPA;
  • At the 6:50 mark I gave the official prediction of TCPAWorld.com on the outcome of the SCOTUS review (boy am I going to regret doing that if I’m wrong);
  • At the 7:52 mark the Archduke breaks down the huge ATDS ruling out of the Second Circuit Court of Appeal–ignore the incorrect graphic stating it is a 7th Cir. case– in Duran v. LaBoom Disco;
  • At the 10:15 mark I start talking but the camera awkwardly stays on the Archduke for about a solid minute for no reason. (Thanks webex);
  • At the 11:04 mark you get to see the Baroness all dressed up for the ball— brace yourselves folks this is worth the price of admission;
  • At the 11:20 mark the Baroness breaks down the FCC’s recent activity around the emergency purposes exemption in light of the Covid19 pandemic;
  • At the 15:30 mark I declare this video podcast to be “easily” the greatest thing ever created by a law firm;
  • At 15:37 the Baron begins his breakdown ofall the big FCC activity surrounding the implementation of the TRACED Act;
  • At 18:20 the Baron and I tease a new soon-to-be-filed FCC petition that we aren’t allowed to talk about yet (who do I do these things?);
  • At 19:25 we turn to Squire Patton Boggs POWERVision (TM) for our big interview with U.S. Telecom S.V.P. Patrick Halley;
  • At some point in the interview I declare him to be “batman”–(send me an e-mail identifying the mark and I’ll send you a prize–once COVID lets us back into our offices);
  • At 1:03 we begin our post-interview breakdown (Yes–the interview with Patrick runs 40 informative minutes!)
  • At 1:06:21 the Apprenticemakes a cameo on the podcast–where’d he come from?
  • At 1:10:12 I close the show with my patented sign off.

Host: The Czar

Cast:   ArchdukeGrand Duchess


Featuring big names like Abbas Kazerounian, Sergei Lemberg and Jay Edelson.